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Meditation
What Is Meditation?
Conversation between Jiddu Krishnamurti
& Professor Allan W. Anderson
...continued from part twelve
Krishnamurti: When there is this sense of religious summation of energy that is love, that is compassion, and care. That operates in daily life.
Anderson: In love the pattern never resists change.
Krishnamurti: So, you see, sir, in that love you can do what you like, it will be still love. But over there the love becomes sensation. You follow?
Anderson: Yes, the whole track of knowledge.
Krishnamurti: And therefore there is no love there.
Anderson: Yes, that image of the Lionel train, the toy that goes round and round and round. Isn't that extraordinary?
Krishnamurti: You see, sir, that means, can the mind, I'm using the word mind in the sense mind, the brain, the body, the whole thing, can the mind be really silent? Not induced silence, silence, not silence put together, not silence that thought imagines is silence. Not the silence of a church or the temple. They have their own silence when you enter a temple or a...
Anderson: Oh yes.
Krishnamurti: ...old cathedrals. They have an extraordinary sense of silence. Thousands of people chanting or talking, praying and all that. But it is above all that. It is not that either. So this silence isn't contrived and therefore it is real. It isn't, "I have brought about through practice a silence."
Anderson: No, it's not what you mentioned earlier, that space between two noises...
Krishnamurti: Oh, yes, that's right.
Anderson: ...because that would become an interval.
Krishnamurti: That's right.
Anderson: And as an interval it simply becomes successive.
Krishnamurti: Successive. That's right.
Anderson: This is extraordinary in terms of the continuing return to question. It seems to me that it's only in the attitude of the question that there's any possibility, even intuiting from afar, the possibility of a silence, since already the answer is a noise.
Krishnamurti: Ah, yes. So, sir, just a minute, there is something very interesting. Does this come up through questioning?
Anderson: No. I didn't mean to suggest that questioning generates it. I meant that simply to take a step back from the enthrallment and enchantment with answers is in itself a necessary step.
Krishnamurti: Of course.
Anderson: And that in itself has its own terror.
Krishnamurti: Of course, of course. So I'm asking, is silence, is the sense of the immeasurable, does that come about by my questioning?
Anderson: No.
Krishnamurti: No. Perception sees the false and discards the false. There is no question, it sees, and finished. But if I keep on questioning I keep on doubting. Doubt has its place but it must be kept on a leash.
Anderson: Now, let me ask you a question here, if I may. The act of perceiving is, as you have said, the doing.
Krishnamurti: Doing.
Anderson: There's absolutely no interval between one and the other, between perceiving and acting.
Krishnamurti: I see danger and I act.
Anderson: And I act. Exactly. Now, in this perceiving, the act is totally free...
Krishnamurti: Yes, sir.
Anderson: ...and then every energy pattern is free to become changed.
Krishnamurti: Yes, quite.
Anderson: Yes, exactly. No more hoarding to itself...
Krishnamurti: No regrets.
Anderson: ...all that its worked for all its life. And amazingly though, it seems to me, there's, if I have understood you correctly, there's a corollary to this. Not only is the pattern free to be changed, but the energy is free to pattern itself.
Krishnamurti: Or not to pattern.
Anderson: Or not to pattern. Yes.
Krishnamurti: There it is. The knowledge has to pattern.
Anderson: Of course.
Krishnamurti: But here it can't pattern, pattern for what? If it patterns it has become thought again. And therefore thought, if it is divisive, thought is superficial. I don't know if I told you the other day, somebody was telling me, he was saying that in Eskimo language thought means the outside. Very interesting. The outside. When they say, go outside, the word is thought. So thought has created the outer and the inner. If thought is not then there is neither the outer nor the inner. That is space. It isn't "I've got inner space".
Continue to next part...
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