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Meditation
What Is Meditation?
Conversation between Jiddu Krishnamurti
& Professor Allan W. Anderson
...continued from part eleven
Krishnamurti: So, sir, see what takes place. Creation in my living. Not expressing, creating a beautiful chair, this or that, it may come, that will come, but in living. And from that arises another question which is really much more important: thought is measure. And as long as we cultivate thought, and all our actions are based on thought as it is now, the search for the immeasurable has no meaning. I can give a meaning to it, say "there is the immeasurable, there is the unnameable, there is the eternal. Don't let us talk about it. It is there." It has no meaning. That is just a supposition, a speculation, or the assertion of a few who think they know. One has discarded all that.
Therefore one asks, when the mind is utterly silent what is the immeasurable? You follow, sir? What is the everlasting? What is the eternal? Not in terms of God, and you know all these things man has invented. Actually to be that. Now silence in that deep sense of that word opens the door. Because you've got there all your energy. Not a thing is wasted. There is no dissipation of energy at all. Therefore in that silence there is summation of energy.
Anderson: Precisely.
Krishnamurti: Not stimulated energy, not self-projected energy, and so on, that's all too childish. There is, because there is no conflict, no control, no reaching out or not reaching, searching, asking, questioning, demanding, waiting, praying, none of that. Therefore there is all that energy which has been wasted is now gathered in that silence. You follow? That silence has become sacred. Because obviously...
Anderson: Of course it has.
Krishnamurti: It has, not the sacred thing which thought has invented.
Anderson: No, not the sacred over against the profane.
Krishnamurti: No, no, no not all that.
Anderson: No, no, no.
Krishnamurti: So it is only such a sacred mind that can see this the most supreme sacred, the essence of all that is sacred, which is beauty. You follow, sir?
Anderson: I do.
Krishnamurti: So there it is. God isn't something that man has invented, or created it out of his image and longing and failure. But when the mind itself becomes sacred then it opens the door to something that is immeasurably sacred. That is religion. And that affects the daily living, the way I talk, the way I treat people, the conduct, behavior - all that. That is the religious life. If that doesn't exist then every other kind of mischief will exist, however clever, however intelligent, however - all that.
Anderson: And meditation does not occur in the context of all this disorder.
Krishnamurti: No.
Anderson: Absolutely not. But in its ongoingness, the way you have mentioned it, one is precisely in that, where what your word religious is pointing to.
Krishnamurti: That is the most profound religious way of living. You see sir what takes place, another thing. You see as this thing is happening, because your energy is being gathered - energy is being gathered, not yours - energy is being gathered, you have other kind of powers, extra sensory power, can do miracles, which has happened all this to me, exorcise, and all that kind of stuff, and healing. But they become totally irrelevant. Not that you don't love people. On the contrary religion is the essence of it. But they are all secondary issues. And people get caught in the secondary issues. I mean, look at what has happened, man who really can heal he becomes - people worship him, a little healing.
Anderson: It reminds me of a story you told me once. It was a year ago: it was about the old man sitting on the banks of a river and the young man came to him, after the older man had sent him away to undertake whatever he needed to learn and all this. And he came back with a marvellous announcement that he could now walk on water. And then you said that the older man looked at him and said, "What's all that about? So you can walk on water. And you have taken all these years to learn how to walk on water. Didn't you see the boat over there?"
Krishnamurti: Oh yes, that's right, sir. That's right.
Anderson: Of course, of course.
Krishnamurti: You see, sir, that's very important. Religion is as we said, is the gathering of all energy, which is attention. In that attention many things happen. Some of them have this gift of healing, miracles. I've had it and I know of which I'm speaking about. And the religious man never touches it. You follow? He may occasionally do this or that but it is a thing to be put away, like a gift, like a talent. It is to be put away, because it is a danger.
Anderson: Exactly.
Krishnamurti: But the more you are talented, the more me, I am important, I have this talent, worship me. With that talent I'll get money, position, power. So this too is a most dangerous thing. So a mind that is religious is aware of all this and lives a life...
Anderson: ...in this space, in this marvellous space. Something occurred to me about our discussion earlier concerning energy and your remark that energy, when it patterns itself - I've forgotten what you used to designate what the patterned energy was, but I suspect it's what we often call matter.
Krishnamurti: Matter, yes.
Anderson: Wouldn't that be correct? Right. In terms of this pointing to act that you have mentioned, it throws a very, very different light on the character of patterned energy and draws our gaze away from the pattern and reminds us that the substance, or rather the substantive element - I don't want to use the word substance here for philosophical reasons - the substantive element that we point to is not the pattern but the energy.
Krishnamurti: Energy, quite. You see sir, that is love, isn't it?
Anderson: Precisely.
Continue to next part...
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