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Meditation
What Is Meditation?
Conversation between Jiddu Krishnamurti
& Professor Allan W. Anderson
...continued from part nine
Krishnamurti: So when knowledge occupies the whole field of the mind as thought there is no space. And thought creates a space around itself as the "me" enclosed, and you enclosed, "we" and "they". So the self, the "me", which is the very essence of thought has its own little space. And to move out of that space is terror, is fear, is anxiety because I am only used to that little space.
Anderson: Yes, exactly. That brings us back to an earlier conversation we had when we touched on the point of terror.
Krishnamurti: Yes, that's right.
Anderson: Amazing...
Krishnamurti: Not being and the being is in the little space which thought has created. So thought can never give space.
Anderson: Of course not.
Krishnamurti: So, meditation is the freeing of the mind of its content as consciousness which creates its own little space. You follow, sir?
Anderson: Yes, I do.
Krishnamurti: So from that says, is that possible? Because I'm occupied with my wife, my children, my responsibilities, I care for the tree, I care for the cat, I care for this and that and I'm occupied, occupied, occupied.
Anderson: This throws a marvellous light on that saying of Jesus which people have pondered and wondered about and thought it was very strange: "Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the son of man hath not where to lay his head." He doesn't, man as such who grasps himself understands, is not inventing a space for himself. It fits perfectly. It fits perfectly. That's marvellous.
Krishnamurti: I don't know.
Anderson: No, I understand. But I was thinking in the context of the whole discourse. It just flashed over me. And our conversations have been such a revelation to me with respect to the literatures that I've soaked myself in for so many years. And it's a demonstration to me of what you've said. For instance, in so far as I ask these questions of myself personally, precisely as they become answered, all of these things out here also become answered. And what could be more empirically demonstrable to an individual that I am the world and the world is me than that.
Krishnamurti: That's right, sir.
Anderson: All I am doing is giving a report of the journey without direction.
Krishnamurti: So, sir, look. The world is getting more and more overpopulated. Cities are growing more and more, spreading, spreading, spreading, suburbs, and so on. Man is getting less and less space and therefore driving out animals, killing. You follow?
Anderson: Oh, yes, yes, yes.
Krishnamurti: Killing the red Indians, the American Indians, killing the Indians in Brazil, and so on. They are doing this, actually it is going on.
Anderson: Oh yes.
Krishnamurti: And, having no space out there, outwardly, except on occasions I go off into the country and say to myself, "My god, I wish I could live here". But I can't because I've got... and so on. So, can there be space inwardly? When there is space inwardly there is space outwardly.
Anderson: Exactly.
Krishnamurti: But the outward space is not going to give the inner space. The inner space of mind that is free from occupation, though it is occupied at the moment with what it has to do, it is occupied, but free, the moment it is finished it is over. I don't carry the office to my home. It is over. So space in the mind means the emptying of consciousness of all its content, and therefore the consciousness which thought as the "me" has created ends and therefore there is space. And that space isn't yours or mine. It is space. You follow?
Anderson: Yes, yes I was thinking of the creation story in Genesis. The appearance of space occurs when the waters are separated from the waters and we have vault now over which the birds fly and this space is called heaven.
Krishnamurti: It is heaven.
Anderson: It is heaven.
Krishnamurti: That's right.
Anderson: Yes, yes. Of course, of course. But then we read that and we don't...
Krishnamurti: Fortunately I don't read any of those things.
Anderson: Goodness. (Laughter)
Krishnamurti: So space, direction, time, will, choice, control - you understand, sir. Now, all that has importance in my living, in the daily living of my life, of every human being. If he doesn't know the meaning of meditation he merely lives in that field of knowledge and therefore that becomes a prison. And therefore being in prison he says, I must escape through entertainment, through Gods, through this and through that, through amusement. You know, that is what is actually taking place.
Continue to next part...
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