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Meditation
What Is Meditation?
Conversation between Jiddu Krishnamurti
& Professor Allan W. Anderson
...continued from part five
Anderson: I wonder if I could ask you a question about dreams here, that might introduce a distinction between dreams in terms of their nature. Sometimes we report that we've had a dream which points to a future event.
Krishnamurti: That's another thing.
Anderson: That's entirely different from what you are talking about.
Krishnamurti: Yes, yes.
Anderson: So we could say that...
Krishnamurti: Sir, I think we can understand that very simply. You know the other day we were walking high up in the hills in India and there was a river flowing down below. And two boats were coming in the opposite direction and you knew where they were going to meet.
Anderson: Of course.
Krishnamurti: When you go high enough you see the boats coming together at a precise point.
Anderson: But that's very objective. That has nothing to do with my subjective unfinished business.
Krishnamurti: No.
Anderson: Which is the other thing you were talking about.
Krishnamurti: That's right.
Anderson: Yes, I quite see, I quite see. Right. What an amazing thing it would be to have all your business done and go to sleep. And if order should present you with an understanding...
Krishnamurti: Of course.
Anderson: Then the understanding never stops from waking through sleeping.
Krishnamurti: That's right.
Anderson: Yes! Of course. Of course. Marvellous. Marvellous.
Krishnamurti: So you see, that way the brain is regenerated, keeps young. No conflict. Conflict wears out the brain.
Anderson: Yes.
Krishnamurti: So, sleep means not only order, rejuvenation, innocence, but also in sleep there are states in which there is absolute freedom to enquire, to see into something which you have never seen with your eyes, physical eyes.
Anderson: Yes.
Krishnamurti: Of course.
Anderson: Yes.
Krishnamurti: So we have described sufficiently into that. I see that. So do I - does the mind live that kind of life during the day?
Anderson: That would be rare.
Krishnamurti: Otherwise it is not meditation.
Anderson: Otherwise it is not meditation, of course, of course.
Krishnamurti: And I don't want to play a game, a hypocritical game, because I am deceiving nobody. I am deceiving myself and I don't want to deceive myself. I don't see the point of deceiving myself because I don't want to be a great man, little man, big man, success. That's all too infantile. So I say, "Am I living that? If not, what is happening?" And it gives me energy to live that way because I have no burden of the others.
Anderson: This is very remarkable. It reminds me of a story that is told about a swordsman and his three sons. And he was an old, old swordsman in old Japan and he wanted to pass on the responsibility for his art to his sons. And he asked the sons each to come into his room and he would speak to them and he would decide.
Krishnamurti: Quite, quite.
Anderson: He was a man of knowledge in terms of the sword, but he also was a man of understanding. And unbeknown to them he put a ball on top of the lintel and as they passed in, they, of course, were quite unaware of that. The youngest was called in first, and when the youngest walked in his father had arranged for this ball to drop, you see, and the ball dropped and the son, in a flash, cut it in two with his sword when it fell down. And his father said, "Please wait in the other room." The second son came in, ball fell on his head but precisely as it touched his head he reached up and he took it in his hands and the father said, "Please wait in the other room." Then the eldest son came in. He opened the door, and as he opened the door he reached up and he took the ball. And the father called them in and he read out the youngest son and he said, "Very brilliant. You've mastered the technique, but you don't understand a thing!" He said to the second one, "Well, you're almost there. Just keep on." And he said to the eldest son, "Well, now you can begin."
And it seemed to me that's just exactly - It's like the word "prajna" which means "pra" - ahead, "jna" - to know, to know beforehand, in the sense - not of some work of prediction that we do based on the study of rats in the lab or something - but understanding is.. ahead and behind in the total movement of that one act.
Krishnamurti: Yes, sir.
Anderson: Oh yes of course.
Continue to next part...
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